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	<title>Comments on: Finding Moonshine</title>
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	<link>http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html</link>
	<description>lieven le bruyn&#039;s blog</description>
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		<title>By: Pierre Charland</title>
		<link>http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html/comment-page-1#comment-5205</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre Charland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 16:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html#comment-5205</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;I’d throw such students out of the window…&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Is this a joke?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Personal motivation is a complex thing.
Is it worthy to spend most of our life proving x=y or anything else?
It&#039;s a valid question, and the answer is not an automatic yes.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’d throw such students out of the window…&#8221;</p>

<p>Is this a joke?</p>

<p>Personal motivation is a complex thing.
Is it worthy to spend most of our life proving x=y or anything else?
It&#8217;s a valid question, and the answer is not an automatic yes.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Russell Van Rooy</title>
		<link>http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html/comment-page-1#comment-5102</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Van Rooy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html#comment-5102</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I truly enjoyed Du Satoy&#039;s &quot;Music of the Primes&quot; and so I will be purchasing  his new book. I read Ronan&#039;s book, &quot;Symmetry and the Monster&quot;, and while I enjoyed it too, I found some of it a little difficult to follow. I am not a professional mathematician, barely an amateur and these book really are not meant for professional math people anyway. I like the fact that these authors spend a fair amount of time delving into the personalities behind the mathematical creations - for me, that is half of the fun.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I truly enjoyed Du Satoy&#8217;s &#8220;Music of the Primes&#8221; and so I will be purchasing  his new book. I read Ronan&#8217;s book, &#8220;Symmetry and the Monster&#8221;, and while I enjoyed it too, I found some of it a little difficult to follow. I am not a professional mathematician, barely an amateur and these book really are not meant for professional math people anyway. I like the fact that these authors spend a fair amount of time delving into the personalities behind the mathematical creations &#8211; for me, that is half of the fun.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Florin</title>
		<link>http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html/comment-page-1#comment-5100</link>
		<dc:creator>Florin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html#comment-5100</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I have just finished reading &quot;Finding moonshine&quot; and I have mixed feelings about it. The last two chapters (the only ones actually discussing about sporadic groups and the moonshine) are quite remarkable, it the whole book would have been at their level it would have been a masterpiece. Unfortunately, it is not the case, the first 8 chapters are quite weak. A pitty...What also dissapointed me is that I was expecting, in a book with this title, to see that the author discusses, well, maybe not only about moonshine, but at least MAINLY about it; it is not the case, and actually I think there are more pages about symmetry in music than about moonshine... 
On the other hand, a remarkable thing in the book is the portrait of Norton. Gee...Certainly du Sautoy has proved his literary talent with it.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have just finished reading &#8220;Finding moonshine&#8221; and I have mixed feelings about it. The last two chapters (the only ones actually discussing about sporadic groups and the moonshine) are quite remarkable, it the whole book would have been at their level it would have been a masterpiece. Unfortunately, it is not the case, the first 8 chapters are quite weak. A pitty&#8230;What also dissapointed me is that I was expecting, in a book with this title, to see that the author discusses, well, maybe not only about moonshine, but at least MAINLY about it; it is not the case, and actually I think there are more pages about symmetry in music than about moonshine&#8230; 
On the other hand, a remarkable thing in the book is the portrait of Norton. Gee&#8230;Certainly du Sautoy has proved his literary talent with it.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Łukasz</title>
		<link>http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html/comment-page-1#comment-5091</link>
		<dc:creator>Łukasz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html#comment-5091</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Du Sautoy is a softy! I’d throw such students out of the window…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Why is that?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
  <p>Du Sautoy is a softy! I’d throw such students out of the window…</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Why is that?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: javier</title>
		<link>http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html/comment-page-1#comment-5056</link>
		<dc:creator>javier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html#comment-5056</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[quote comment=&quot;5053&quot;]
I disagree with Javier that the main point for being in research is that it is an easy-going job: the main point you should be in research is because you find it interesting and like to be challenged.[/quote]&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Ohh, but it is not a matter on which the main point you &lt;strong&gt;should&lt;/strong&gt; be in research is, but on which the main point you &lt;strong&gt;are&lt;/strong&gt; in research is. Same thing happen with secondary school teachers: they should be doing that job because of a passion for education, but most of them do it because it is an stable, reasonably well paid job, with sound holidays.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;And&lt;/strong&gt;, we both know that we chose research because of the travelling, the free food, the beer (and the women, of course!). I see that you&#039;ve turned to the dark side now... Is that goatee a part of your devious plan to take over the world? I always thought you&#039;d go for a moustache and a monocle, as a good traditionalist :-P&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[quote comment="5053"]
I disagree with Javier that the main point for being in research is that it is an easy-going job: the main point you should be in research is because you find it interesting and like to be challenged.[/quote]</p>

<p>Ohh, but it is not a matter on which the main point you <strong>should</strong> be in research is, but on which the main point you <strong>are</strong> in research is. Same thing happen with secondary school teachers: they should be doing that job because of a passion for education, but most of them do it because it is an stable, reasonably well paid job, with sound holidays.</p>

<p><strong>And</strong>, we both know that we chose research because of the travelling, the free food, the beer (and the women, of course!). I see that you&#8217;ve turned to the dark side now&#8230; Is that goatee a part of your devious plan to take over the world? I always thought you&#8217;d go for a moustache and a monocle, as a good traditionalist <img src='http://www.neverendingbooks.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':-P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Geert</title>
		<link>http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html/comment-page-1#comment-5053</link>
		<dc:creator>Geert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html#comment-5053</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hmmm... I gather your regular Antwerp bookshop is not Fnac. ;-)
I disagree with Javier that the main point for being in research is that it is an easy-going job: the main point you should be in research is because you find it interesting and like to be challenged.
On the other hand, I agree that the current system of doing 1-year postdoc after 1-year postdoc does not make it easy for graduate students and postdocs to secure &quot;the future of the subject&quot;, as Du Sautoy puts it. Postdocs and graduate students also have to eat and feel the need to settle down at some point, preferably before the age of 40. And as far as &quot;rescuing a postdoc from the City&quot; is concerned... I now know for a fact that there are equally challenging and interesting jobs outside academia; and if more and more postdocs and graduate students are leaving the university for such positions, maybe this does not mean they are not good enough or not motivated enough to stay in academia, but rather that the academic world should rethink the way they currently run the whole tenure track system...&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230; I gather your regular Antwerp bookshop is not Fnac. <img src='http://www.neverendingbooks.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> 
I disagree with Javier that the main point for being in research is that it is an easy-going job: the main point you should be in research is because you find it interesting and like to be challenged.
On the other hand, I agree that the current system of doing 1-year postdoc after 1-year postdoc does not make it easy for graduate students and postdocs to secure &#8220;the future of the subject&#8221;, as Du Sautoy puts it. Postdocs and graduate students also have to eat and feel the need to settle down at some point, preferably before the age of 40. And as far as &#8220;rescuing a postdoc from the City&#8221; is concerned&#8230; I now know for a fact that there are equally challenging and interesting jobs outside academia; and if more and more postdocs and graduate students are leaving the university for such positions, maybe this does not mean they are not good enough or not motivated enough to stay in academia, but rather that the academic world should rethink the way they currently run the whole tenure track system&#8230;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Florin</title>
		<link>http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html/comment-page-1#comment-5052</link>
		<dc:creator>Florin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 18:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html#comment-5052</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I myself enjoyed a lot reading &quot;Music of the primes&quot;, so I would love to read this new book. Do you think I could borrow it from you for a while?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I myself enjoyed a lot reading &#8220;Music of the primes&#8221;, so I would love to read this new book. Do you think I could borrow it from you for a while?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: javier</title>
		<link>http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html/comment-page-1#comment-5050</link>
		<dc:creator>javier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 14:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html#comment-5050</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[quote post=&quot;396&quot;]giving the impression that it is impossible to do mathematics of quality if one isn’t living in Princeton, Paris, Cambridge, Bonn or … Oxford)[/quote]&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Well,  with the possible exception of Paris (and &lt;em&gt;they&lt;/em&gt; carefully solved that by pushing the -math monastery- IHES in Bures sur Yvette and not any closer to... well, anywhere), all these places are so frickin&#039; boring that it is hard to find anything to do! No surprise that people end up doing some good math... how can you possibly get distrcted from math if pubs close at 11.00 pm!? luckily for my mental health, Köln is just half an hour away.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It is funny that you mention the thing about paragraphs that &lt;em&gt;have the look and feel of being copied from the books mentioned above&lt;/em&gt;, recently I&#039;ve been feeling the same thing while reading some (several, meaning like a dozen) papers, even from different authors. From a pragmatical point of view, the faster I can get throu&#039; them, the better, but I wonder if some &quot;sentences&quot; are becoming sort of mantras that people jut go repeating over and over again, till the point they lost their original meaning (if any).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;[quote post=&quot;396&quot;]Du Sautoy is a softy! I’d throw such students out of the window…[/quote]&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Maybe you should consider moving your office to the ground floor then? :-D
As cynical as it might sound, I think the real question the student was asking was something like 
&quot;why should I put so much effort on such a low-paid job, which almost surely will oblige me to move from one city to another for several years before getting any stability, instead of moving to &quot;the city&quot; and trade stocks for ten times the salary?&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Hell, I hang out with pre/postdocs all the time, and I&#039;d dare to say that over 90% have no clear plans even for the next year, and almost all agree that main point for being in research is because it is an easy-going job (no timetables, no boss looking behind your shoulder, relative freedom to choose what you wanna do), but don&#039;t wanna keep this &quot;write some dumb research project, get recommendation letters, apply for the next math institute in the list&quot; thing going on for too long. Is this nightmare that drives us crazy and make us ask ourselves &quot;what&#039;s the point?&quot;, so please go easy on us ;-)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[quote post="396"]giving the impression that it is impossible to do mathematics of quality if one isn’t living in Princeton, Paris, Cambridge, Bonn or … Oxford)[/quote]</p>

<p>Well,  with the possible exception of Paris (and <em>they</em> carefully solved that by pushing the -math monastery- IHES in Bures sur Yvette and not any closer to&#8230; well, anywhere), all these places are so frickin&#8217; boring that it is hard to find anything to do! No surprise that people end up doing some good math&#8230; how can you possibly get distrcted from math if pubs close at 11.00 pm!? luckily for my mental health, Köln is just half an hour away.</p>

<p>It is funny that you mention the thing about paragraphs that <em>have the look and feel of being copied from the books mentioned above</em>, recently I&#8217;ve been feeling the same thing while reading some (several, meaning like a dozen) papers, even from different authors. From a pragmatical point of view, the faster I can get throu&#8217; them, the better, but I wonder if some &#8220;sentences&#8221; are becoming sort of mantras that people jut go repeating over and over again, till the point they lost their original meaning (if any).</p>

<p>[quote post="396"]Du Sautoy is a softy! I’d throw such students out of the window…[/quote]</p>

<p>Maybe you should consider moving your office to the ground floor then? <img src='http://www.neverendingbooks.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> 
As cynical as it might sound, I think the real question the student was asking was something like 
&#8220;why should I put so much effort on such a low-paid job, which almost surely will oblige me to move from one city to another for several years before getting any stability, instead of moving to &#8220;the city&#8221; and trade stocks for ten times the salary?&#8221;</p>

<p>Hell, I hang out with pre/postdocs all the time, and I&#8217;d dare to say that over 90% have no clear plans even for the next year, and almost all agree that main point for being in research is because it is an easy-going job (no timetables, no boss looking behind your shoulder, relative freedom to choose what you wanna do), but don&#8217;t wanna keep this &#8220;write some dumb research project, get recommendation letters, apply for the next math institute in the list&#8221; thing going on for too long. Is this nightmare that drives us crazy and make us ask ourselves &#8220;what&#8217;s the point?&#8221;, so please go easy on us <img src='http://www.neverendingbooks.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Finding Moonshine</title>
		<link>http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html/comment-page-1#comment-5049</link>
		<dc:creator>Finding Moonshine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 13:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html#comment-5049</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] Please don&#8217;t take life for granted. wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerpt On friday, I did spot in my regular Antwerp-bookshop Finding Moonshine by Marcus du Sautoy and must have uttered a tiny curse because, at once, everyone near me was staring at me… To make matters worse, I took the book from the shelf, quickly glanced through it and began shaking my head more and more, the more I convinced myself that it was a mere resampling of Symmetry and the Monster, The equation that couldn’t be solved, From Error-Correcting Codes through Sphere Packings to Simple Groups [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Please don&#8217;t take life for granted. wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerpt On friday, I did spot in my regular Antwerp-bookshop Finding Moonshine by Marcus du Sautoy and must have uttered a tiny curse because, at once, everyone near me was staring at me… To make matters worse, I took the book from the shelf, quickly glanced through it and began shaking my head more and more, the more I convinced myself that it was a mere resampling of Symmetry and the Monster, The equation that couldn’t be solved, From Error-Correcting Codes through Sphere Packings to Simple Groups [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Media Districts Entertainment Blog &#187; Finding Moonshine</title>
		<link>http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/finding-moonshine.html/comment-page-1#comment-5048</link>
		<dc:creator>Media Districts Entertainment Blog &#187; Finding Moonshine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 12:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] neverendingbooks added an interesting post today on Finding MoonshineHere&#8217;s a small reading [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] neverendingbooks added an interesting post today on Finding MoonshineHere&#8217;s a small reading [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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